How Immersive Technology Is Changing Medical Education: Sean Moloney, CEO and Founder of EmbodyXR

Lindsey Smith

Hi, I'm Lindsey Smith, welcoming you to Raise the Line with Osmosis from Elsevier, an ongoing exploration about how to improve health and healthcare. 

Today, we're going to look into what's happening with the rapidly changing use of immersive technology in health education, particularly extended reality, commonly known as XR. At Elsevier, we're also exploring the power of XR to transform healthcare education. Our immersive application, Complete HeartX, allows learners to explore the anatomy, physiology, and pathology of the human heart in stunning detail. It combines photorealistic 3D models, interactive simulations, educational videos and scenes -- all based on trusted content from Osmosis and Gray’s Anatomy. There is no doubt that these innovations are helping shape the future of how healthcare professionals learn, practice, and grow.

Today, I'm pleased to welcome Sean Moloney to the podcast. Mr. Moloney is the CEO and founder of EmbodyXR, an extended reality technology platform that allows users to create interactive simulations, virtual labs, and scenario-based learning using headsets, desktops, and mobile devices.

Mr. Moloney is a healthcare innovator with over 30 years of experience. He is recognized for leading influential educational and marketing initiatives for physicians, patients, and caregivers through his work as CEO of both the Journal of Clinical Psychiatry and Dramatic Health, and Director of Marketing Innovations at Pfizer. Additionally, he's the creator and executive producer of the highly ranked podcast, Game Changers in Medicine. 

Thank you very much for being with us today, Mr. Moloney.

Sean Moloney 

It's nice to be here. Thank you, Lindsey for having me. I'm honored.

Lindsey 

Awesome. Well, let's jump in. So you've had such a diverse career from publishing clinical research to creating media that brings real patient stories to life. What moments stand out most to you and is there a common thread that maybe connects them all?

Sean 

There absolutely is a common thread. By trade, I'm a journalist. I graduated from the University of Massachusetts Amherst School of Journalism. It was there that I learned the “who, what, when, where, why” which, of course, is the lede of any newspaper story. But in addition to learning how to write a lede, I was fascinated by the notion of what I refer to as the dramatic arc. It's the context, the conflict, climax and the resolution, and it truly is an arc, and it's how stories are written. So, I think if there's one connector of all of it, it would be the art and science of telling a good story, the art and science of interviewing.

Two people can interview the same person, and you're gonna get a totally different end result, you know? Every good answer deserves another question. They go together, storytelling and the art and science of interviewing, that really connects all of this. If you're in a meeting with an innovator at a teaching university and they're learning about XR, how you engage that innovator or new physician who's interested in learning but knows very little about XR is key. It's important that you cater to them and nothing caters to them more than a really good story and allowing them to become part of that story, in the end. So yes, I would say it's storytelling, Lindsey.

Lindsey 

Yeah, that's really cool, and I like what you said there about that common thread of telling the story. So, I want to switch gears and talk a little bit about the extended reality space. How does your background inform your approach to developing AI-powered XR platforms for education?

Sean 

One thing that's always helpful -- because there's a lot of acronyms that are kind of thrown around with XR, AR, VR -- so I thought for our audience, I would just take a second and clarify what those acronyms mean and how they kind of come together or how they actually have their own lane. 

Extended reality is kind of the highest level of category. But extended reality is made up of AR -- that's augmented reality -- and augmented reality is that there's a pass through the headset in which, you know, I'm looking at the real trees, but between me and the trees or in the trees is a layered 3D asset also known as spatial computing. But something is joining me in my view of the world, and that's augmented reality. 

VR, or  virtual reality, is in a more closed environment in which I'm with avatars, or there could be furniture, and in our world, there could be medical devices, patients, caregivers. The environment is a 3D environment and it's created by developers. That's virtual reality and it's a lot different than augmented reality, but it falls under XR, which is extended reality. 

The third lane is simulation. In simulation, you put the hand controllers down, and you're actually working with an object in a virtual environment. Let's just take, for example, a vericor bag, which is used to transport vaccines from a hospital to a home. This is a real life example. We train nurses how to set those settings, how to work the thermometer to test it, how to assemble it, how to properly store. They're actually building muscle memory using their hands in doing this, interacting with an object. 

In this case, it's a vericor vaccine transport bag. The five bags that the hospital may have might be in use, so they don't have access to the physical object and so this is a great way to not only explain simulation, but to start to dive into the benefits of extended reality, in this case simulation. 

That's an incredible classroom. It's immersive across AR, VR, simulation. You really, really are absorbed in the content. We'll get into a little bit later about the metrics and the measurement of it all. But those are the three lanes, if you will, that make up extended reality. 

Now there's a new acronym that's starting to emerge, and it's specific to medicine. It's MXR -- medical extended reality. I would expect that acronym to make its way into our vocabulary increasingly in the health industry because there are some nuances, there are some very specific dimensions of extended reality when it comes to health and healthcare, so I just wanted to kind of lay that groundwork. 

Now, to take a component of your question, was the instructional design and how does all this kind of come together under a platform or a program. I want to make it very clear for our audience that clinical accuracy is the absolutely the most important center point of everything. Great medical writing, well researched medical writing, thinking like an instructional designer...these principles are at the core of XR and they are unwavering. It's very important that is never lost. We can't get too mixed up and enamored, if you will, by the 3D and the immersion. I've witnessed that. I have seen that in other companies and organizations and it's absolutely critical that we maintain those core principles. 

Lindsey 

That's a super helpful explanation between the extended reality, virtual reality, simulation and medical extended reality. And I liked what you said there about the importance of that trusted content. That's something that we focus a lot on at Elsevier as well. So you'd mentioned before that AI integrations and inductive decision tree algorithms is a key part of your XR innovations. Can you explain to our audience how these two concepts work together?

Sean 

Sure. We started with the art and science of storytelling in XR, which I would transpose to be the art and science of allowing learners to cast their own journey through the content. Well, how? We want to provide them with optimal or less optimal paths to take and as a result of that decision, they get a different experience within the 3D environment, albeit VR or simulation programs. 

So, the art of the AI allows us to allow learners to interact with patients, to be able to ask them questions and get different responses. In addition to that, choose different patient types and choose different diagnostic decisions through a decision tree path that gives them an entirely different experience than another student and repeat that journey with different types of patients. 

You know, residents do grand rounds and they see a slice of health and health care. When in XR, we can provide a virtual hospital that has 20, 30 different patient cases, and they can learn from a cross section and the instructional design within each case gives them an opportunity to make choices, and their choices lead to learning of various different types.

That's the role of the instructional design. AI is just the enabler that allows us to make that even more powerful and have an endless amount of options. And it is about options. Giving learners options gives them a better learning experience, more holistic, and a more comprehensive learning agenda. 

Lindsey 

That's really fascinating to hear, and I like how those two concepts work together to really create that more effective learning experience for healthcare professionals. Everyone does learn differently, and that's something that we've definitely seen at Osmosis as well. 

I'd like to talk a little bit about EmbodyXR. What is it all about? What can people do with it, and how is it being used in the real world today?

Sean 

Yeah, well, it's a terrific question. As I think all entrepreneurs face, we're still understanding who we are, and that's very exciting. Every day, every week, every month, we learn something new about ourselves and that's the way I think innovation should roll out, right? 

So I guess we started building programs and we recognized that these programs were very expensive to build. The distance between the medical writers and the developers who code resulted in things getting lost in translation, right? And so we decided that we would start to build our own dynamic platform -- kind of like the WordPress -- that would allow us in a forms-based environment to be able to connect narration with 3D assets, with avatars, with a pull-down menu of every language possible that we could put it in. We also wanted to have a library of evaluations, pre and post-test quizzes, that could be embedded in that journey I spoke about earlier. 

We also knew that we had to have a learning management system, an LMS, which is the collection of the data as it relates to the user's activities, their evaluations, time on message. So we built the first LMS that was specific to the headset, and we also allowed for that LMS to be connected through an API to enterprise LMS's. I don't want to get too far into the technical. However, EmbodyXR has now surfaced as a platform company in addition to building programs.

This comes at very important time because if you take, for example, nursing schools...there's a nursing shortage. There's a high cost for upskilling, and we have the opportunity to help the system by providing a reasonable cost for upskilling, which is required by most boards of nursing at the state and federal level. We have an opportunity to fill the gap and train nurses at less cost and less time commitment. We will never replace the in-person teaching. But we can complement it and perhaps we can make the students and learners even better.

As an example, we are now working in South Africa with those in the higher education industry. We're recognizing that we're a virtual classroom, and whether it's health, higher education, business, engineering...we can bring our classroom to South Africa. And that's critical because, for example,140,000 students apply for the business school, but only 40,000 get in. Well, we can help those other 100,000. And not just a Teams Meeting, but have them be immersed. Have them be able to move their hands, high five each other, if you will. Have the faculty bring in 3D assets in the center of the room. Take apart that car engine. Put that back together. 

This is a living example. Just today I was on with people in South Africa and it felt as though they were right here in my living room, which is my office, and it was just beyond exciting. So, we're evolving every single day, but we're recognizing we're a virtual classroom and we can bring people together regardless of geography and culture and we can unite them around learning.

Lindsey 

The platform is definitely versatile, and I particularly like the scalability and the accessibility piece that you mentioned. I also like the real world examples that you shared. When I come back to the nursing shortage, I think that one's very relevant today for us. That ability to bring everyone together into this virtual setting, I think, is really amazing. 

So I want to talk a little bit about the clinical accuracy piece that you mentioned a previously and how you ensure that the AI within your XR platform maintains that clinical accuracy and adheres to evidence-based research?

Sean 

It's a very, very important question, especially these days. Number one, we're blessed with an extensive advisory board, partner and my co-founder and partner is Dr. Rubin Pillay. He is president of Innovation University of Alabama Health Systems. He's also head of the Heersink Biomedical Institute and he's also head of AI at UAB Health Systems. We are constantly working with him and with his advisors to ensure clinical accuracy. But not just clinical accuracy in terms of the program, but also the governance of our company and our operation to see that we are taking all the required steps to ensure clinical accuracy. 

You know, reviews are different, too. So when a faculty member reviews an XR program, it's not like reviewing a PowerPoint presentation. You have to judge it based on inclusiveness, right, that's certainly important, but also interactivity and also information and that kind of comes together as the three or four “I”s, if you will, that we have to look through as faculty to ensure that our programs are both clinically accurate but also accomplishing the goal they set out to which is to dramatically advance medical education and training. Are we doing that too? And there's no negotiation between the two. They both have to unilaterally come forward. 

In addition to that, our physicians can go into the content to change some narration or update some research, hit save, and the next time that person puts the headset on or is watching what's happening in the headset on PC, that medical accuracy is in place. It’s similar to Apple updating our iPhone when we're sleeping. 

It’s very important to understand that we don't just serve those in the headset. We actually broadcast from the headset to PC's and mobile devices, giving us broader reach and impact. Everything we do is what we refer to as “over the air.” Nothing is on the headset permanently. It's constantly being updated, and that is very critical. 

That also comes from a core learning of mine going back to Dramatic Health. I had to go through the Medical, Legal & Regulatory departments of most pharma companies with real patient stories over the course of eighteen years, and one of the biggest concerns was if there's a label change -- if there is an indication that is added to our medication or taken away -- how will that video be updated? We had to work hard sometimes to pull back those video assets from multiple different broadcast channels. 

That's not the case in this world because we have a central management system of all of the content and can make those changes in real time. That’s just highlighting an example of how we ensure medical accuracy, but how the technology allows us to be careful authors in real time. 

Lindsey 

Yeah, it sounds like you guys have built in some really strong guardrails in this space and are taking all the right steps to ensure clinical accuracy in the ever-changing landscape in medical education. It's something that we pay a lot of attention to as well with the content that we're putting out. So, do you envision a future where XR and AI are also used to educate patients and caregivers? And what potential challenges do you see with

Sean 

Yes, in fact, we are involved right now in some proof of concepts and pilots. One of the areas that I'm most excited about is working with children who are immobile in their in bed -- and have to be for a number of weeks -- and allowing them to be able to get into the headset and to play games with their hands and their arms to keep them active, right? In addition to some of the other mental health support we can provide by having them see animals in the zoo and go to far-off places. You know, Robert Louis Stevenson wrote Treasure Island when he was confined to bed. That's where he wrote most of his great novels, dreaming about lands that he wanted to visit, thus Treasure Island. We can capture the same opportunity with headsets and children so that's one area that I happen to be involved in that I'm most excited.

We're getting better at this, and we're learning more every day. Remember, we're students of this modality as well. But we're learning how to use AI in guarded ways. So it's just specific to an audience type, or to a topic, or to a subject. Bringing in that critical word which you brought up earlier, which is ensuring safety in addition to accuracy. I also see it as being an educational tool that allows patients to truly understand more thoroughly, with immersion, the treatments that they're receiving and the best ways in which they can recover. They can look down the road at their recovery a little bit, and that gives them inspiration. 

Exercise is a big use of the headset today. We can have tailored exercise and nutrition programs within the headset that they can learn about. You might say, “Well, they can just read about it.” Reading is very important, and we do that too, but when you're immersed in the headset the engagement levels are so much higher. And remember, we're multi-user, so we can have many, many people in the headset. So if the caregiver and the patient want to get together with two or three physicians, what better way to do so than being in the headset and having them have dialogue and conversation and having the physician explain a particular therapy or a medical device in 3D in the headset.

That's education, it's inspiration, it's interactivity, and it's collaboration. It's core team learning. And those are some of the immediate areas I see XR making a difference for patients, and of course, for that other patient, which is the caregiver.

Lindsey 

I can totally see that...like walking through a virtual version of what recovery might look like at home and how you kind of manage that condition once you leave the health care facility. XR and AI integrations also are being applied to other areas outside of health care, like engineering, manufacturing, and even corporate trainings. I think it's really interesting to think about the same immersive tools and how they can help someone learn how to fix an engine or even manage a team.  I think it opens up so many possibilities. 

Sean 

Absolutely. And if I may add to that, Lindsey, the remote monitoring device industry is about a $30 billion industry today and it's growing in double digits. What that means is that our homes increasingly are becoming our hospitals. There are probably 250 devices that generate about 80 % of all the patient questions that outpatient nurses or telemedicine departments have to answer. And they're answering those questions verbally, they're not answering them with say augmented reality, which is one of those swim lanes I talked about earlier that makes up XR. 

So one of the things we've developed is a way for someone who has a mobile phone to put their phone over their Ozempic pen, for example, and they can ask questions on how to set that Ozempic pen. On the other side is a caregiver -- a physician or a nurse -- that actually can see through the eyes of the patient and answer those questions in a visual way, and not just with voice. 

Lindsey

Wow. 

Sean

So if we were able to build a library of 250 remote monitoring devices with all the Q &As using AI to help us generate it, and then use AI to help generate all the imagery that represents that remote monitoring device, and have AI analyze all of the questions and answers over the past week to find trends and give us interesting reports so we can get ahead of the curve, and provide a different set of educational objectives to help avoid those questions....well, what I just did, I hope, is put that whole constellation together on how we can make health and healthcare better with the ultimate goal that unites all of us, which is to improve patient outcomes and wellbeing. 

Lindsey 

Wow, that's amazing. Remote monitoring and so much virtual learning happening...so many possibilities. I appreciate you sharing that example with us. Speaking of learning, at Osmosis, we're always looking for ways to fill knowledge gaps and support learners across many disciplines. Is there a topic that you think we should explore in a video that could really make a difference for students or professionals in health care?

Sean 

Sure. I do want to say that it's an honor to be with you. Osmosis is one of my favorite companies. I just think the company has one of greatest personalities. So if a company was ranked in terms of personality, you guys are certainly at the top. The illustrations are absolutely magnificent, and they bring high science and health, clinical health, down to earth. I certainly learn a lot. So, just a shout out for you and for your team.

Lindsey 

Thank you.

Sean 

One of my thoughts is that I think with AI, there’s an opportunity to tailor a lot of the materials that are used with nurses and physicians for patient audiences in much the way I'm doing. So that is certainly something that comes to mind I'd like to share. But I think that these remote monitoring devices...it's such a huge, huge market here. I think that's something to take a look at for sure. I think increasingly some of these emerging technologies are empowering people to be the CEO of their own health, and I think

nurses and clinical staff should learn about how to help someone be the CEO. So there might be some interesting storylines there for you to develop. 

I also think there's probably something that could be done to help them with managing agitated and angry patients which is a growing problem, but a topic we kind of hide, and it's a very serious one. I would suggest more learning content in the area of empathy.  More emphasis on the bedside manner in managing these difficult situations, I think is a critical area. I know that we're doing that, providing a safe environment in the headset and for those that watch what's happening in the headset. So I think some of these topics maybe that are a little less obvious to the system are ones to address. 

I also know that there's a lot of burden on the healthcare system today, right? There's a lot of burden, and I think that there are some topic areas there that would kind of refill the coffers, if you will, with confidence and perseverance. I think those are some areas I would suggest. Lindsey. I hope that's helpful.

Lindsey 

Yeah, really helpful. Great recommendations. And a lot of these topics that you mentioned, we haven't covered yet, so we will definitely pass these along to our content team for consideration. 

So, we have many students and early career health professionals in our audience.  What's your advice to them about meeting the challenges of this moment and approaching their career in health care?

Sean 

So, often when one is asked that question, the immediate answer is to stay curious. Well, you wouldn't be in such a great position if you weren't curious. So I'd like to skip that answer. But I do recognize that there could be a lot of concern, maybe even fear, as we enter this third great industrial revolution around AI and its role. I know also that there could be concern and fear about funding. That's a real one. 

I would just say, stay confident. Do not allow some of these environmental factors to stand in the way of your genius and your devotion to patients and health. That's really, really important. I sense a lot of that when I'm working with the residents and even some physicians in certain areas, that there seems to be some real concern there and we can't allow that to interfere with our passions and our work. That's one. 

Lifelong learning is another one. We have continuing medical education -- there's a certain number of credits that you have to receive as a physician every year -- but besides that agenda, lifelong learning is so critical. We've produced more content in the past two years with AI than we have in the history of the world. Things are moving faster and faster. So I think to make sure that you keep a personal lifelong learning agenda, both within your career and also personally.

As Robert Frost said, my object in living is to unite my avocation and my vocation as my two eyes make one in sight. That perhaps would be the last comment I would make. It is so important to keep your avocation and your vocation together, like your two eyes make one in sight, and focus on both and come together. I'm just so proud of any resident I get to work with, or some of younger students and the nurses and so forth. I learn something new from them every day. And the ones I seem to learn the most from are the ones that really have a very strong curriculum, both personally and professionally. 

Lindsey 

I love that. What a great reminder for our audience, as well. Before we wrap up today's podcast, I wanted to just ask if there was anything that we didn't cover that maybe we should have?

Sean 

No, I think you have given a wonderful interview and I guess the only thing I would say is I know it's very early on with all of this and there's a cultural divide and so forth, but I think that inevitably it is here to stay. And I hope that as the Arnold P. Gold Foundation gives out a white coat every year, I hope someday that there is an XR headset in the pocket because I think there's a lot to glean from it. And as I say, I'm only as good as my subject matter experts I work with, but I'm also only as good as the residents that will truly live this in an even more significant way than in 2025. So, I guess my last message would be of congratulations and my best wishes for continued learning out of the headset. 

Lindsey 

Great. Thank you so much for adding that and for being with us today, Mr. Moloney. We're excited to see what you do next and we'll be watching EmbodyXR to see what is coming down the pipeline from you guys. 

Sean 

Thank you. Again, I'm very honored to be here.

Lindsey 

That's a wrap on today's episode. Mr. Moloney, your insights into the evolving role of extended reality in healthcare education and the incredible work you're doing with EmbodyXR have given us a glimpse into the future of immersive learning. It's clear that XR isn't just a technology advancement, it's a transformative tool for educators, students, and ultimately patient care. We appreciate your time, your expertise, and your continued commitment to innovation in this space.

I'm Lindsey Smith. Thanks for checking out today's show. Remember to do your part to raise the line and strengthen the health care system. We're all in this together.